Comments on: “Do you have it in you?” – A shortage of officers in our Defense Forces

By: KARTIK

KARTIK — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:09:13 +0000

http://www.indianmilitary.info/2008/10/organised-group-services-not-including.html

ARMY OFFICERS ARE NOT EVEN CLASS ONE OFFICER
As we all know, there is wide disparity in promotions between the IAS and other Group-A services after the level of the Non-Functional Selection Grade (NFSG)/Selection Grade (SG). While almost all services reach the NFSG/SG level (Rs 37400-67000 with a Grade Pay of Rs 8700) after 13 years of service, progression beyond that to Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) and above is heavily tilted in favour of the IAS. In view to eliminate this disparity, the 6th CPC in Paragraph 3.3.12 on Page 174 had recommended the following :

“This is not justified as organised Group A services have to be given their due which justifiably should mean that the disparity, as far as appointment to various grades in Centre are concerned, should not exceed two years between IAS and organised Central Group A services. The Government should, accordingly, consider batch-wise parity while empanelling and/or posting at Centre between respective batches of IAS and other organised Group A services with the gap being restricted to two years. Whenever any IAS officer of a particular batch is posted in the Centre to a particular grade carrying a specific grade pay in pay bands PB-3 or PB-4 , grant of higher pay scale on non-functional basis to the officers belonging to batches of organised Group A services that are senior by two years or more should be given by the Government. The higher non-functional grade so given to the officers of organised Group A services will be personal to them and will not depend on the number of vacancies in that grade. These officers will continue in their existing posts and will get substantial posting in the higher grade that they are holding on non-functional basis only after vacancies arise in that grade. This will not only ensure some sort of modified parity between IAS and other Central Group A services but will also alleviate the present level of disparity existing between promotional avenues available to different organised Group A services.”

Hence the 6th CPC had recommended progression into higher grades for all other services of the same batch with a restricted gap of 2 years. So if an IAS officer is empanelled as Joint Secretary in 19 years of service at the Centre, all other Organised Group-A services (including technical services) shall enter the Joint Secretary’s grade in 21 years. The progression shall be on a non-functional basis which means that they shall continue to be posted on their actual respective posts but would receive the pay, grade pay, perks and facilities of the higher grade. As explained in an earlier post, all Joint Secretaries GoI are Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) officers but all SAG officers are not Joint Secretaries to GoI. While it takes around 19 years for an IAS officer in the SAG to be empanelled as a Joint Secretary to Govt of India at the Centre, the same officer is promoted to SAG in 16 years while in his/her own cadre. Till the time a SAG officer (Grade Pay 10000) is not empanelled as a Joint Secretary to Govt of India, he/she holds the post of Director to Govt of India (Grade Pay 8700) when posted to the Centre though he/she may have held the SAG in his/her own State/UT with a Grade Pay of 10000.

The recommended pay progression parity for other services has now been accepted and implemented by the Govt.

The newly promulgated Indian Police Service (Pay) Amendment Rules, 2008 contain the following note under Rule 3 :-

“Note 3: Whenever any Indian Administrative Service officer of the State or Joint Cadre is posted at the Centre to a particular grade carrying a specific grade pay in pay band 3 or pay band 4, the members of Service, who are senior to such Indian Administrative Service officer by two years or more and have not so far been promoted to that particular grade, shall be appointed to the same grade on non -functional basis from the date of posting of the Indian Administrative Service officer in that particular grade.”

The newly promulgated Indian Forest Service (Pay) Second Amendment Rules, 2008 also contain the above stipulation.

Also according to new rules, the following is the promotional criterion for All India services officers :-

1. Promotion to Senior Time Scale (Pay Band-3 / Grade Pay 6600) : 4 years for all

2. Promotion to Junior Administrative Grade (Pay Band-3 / Grade Pay 7600) : 9 years for all

3. Promotion to Selection Grade (Pay Band-4 / Grade Pay 8700) : 13 years for all

4. Promotion to DIG in the IPS and Conservator in IFS (Pay Band-4 / Grade Pay 8900) : 14 years. This grade does not exist in the IAS

5. Promotion to Senior Administrative Grade (Pay Band-4 / Grade Pay 10000) : 16 years for IAS, 18 years for IPS and IFS

All service rules are available on http://www.persmin.nic.in

The Pay problems of the Defence Services can also be addressed if the same pay progression criterion is adopted for them too. And provided there is a will to do so, there is no reason why this cannot happen. Functional grade pay can be granted till the rank of Lt Col in 13th year of service and after that non-functional grade pay can be released linked with the progression of other Group-A services. The manpower pool is the same (graduation is the minimum qualification for all Defence and Civil Services), the recruiting agency is the same (UPSC) and all are Group-A central govt employees and hence in my humble opinion, pay progression should also ideally be implemented universally. In fact since the Pay Commission had recommended similar pay bands for all including the uniformed services, then the pay / career progression formula should also have been the same. If put into practice for the defence services, this would not only reduce discontentment but also meet the requirement of the spirit of Article 14 of the Constitution of India.

What do you think ?

Mark my words, this would ultimately happen. Perhaps in the 7th CPC, but it would !

By: amit

amit — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:59:13 +0000

Hi PLEASE DONOT JOIN AS SSC OFFICER IN IAF.Reason the policies are not stable and they just change the policy blindly.In last three years the policy is changed many times. In 2006 PC was stopped for all officer because some olady officers mover to court seeking for permanent commission and AF wants to save their tail. The policy was changed without thinking that it may affect the already available aspirants SSC officers. The policy was issued in 2006 with retrospective affect. Today the policy is again reviewed but this time it is for those officers who join in 2009. This time the policy is not affected retrospective. The AF is showing its total goondaraj. They are playing with the career of the officers. I am just 31 doing well in my branch and forced to go out. The polocy has affected me directly. I requested media or some social organisation to look into this. I donot know what AF wants Some Bodys LIFE in terms of his sacrifice……

By: amit

amit — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 05:51:09 +0000

Hi everbody

By: andy

andy — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:42:36 +0000

i do agree with most of the comments . however i would like to share my views on entry and exit policy prevalent in services with special mention of IAF. ATC and FC officers are inducted with an option to join as an ssc or pc officers at the time of induction.an ssc officer who join undergoes similiar recruitment procedure as an pc officer but by virtue of name he is an ssc officer. at later dates if he wishes to continue in service as an pc officer there is no such option available to him as a policy even if the officer is willing and doing fantastically well in his profession.at the same time an pc offr not interested in job and not giving average outcome , willing to go out is not allowed to do so. On contrary govt is ready to induct more amd more ssc offr of same branch and give release to experience well deserved ssc offr at the cost of maintaining pyramidal structure .
don’t you think this is an act of injustice for ssc officer and questionmark for national defence .

By: K. Ravi

K. Ravi — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:50:34 +0000

Dear Responders, It may be a tradition or urge of need that one goes to serve in armed forces but being in social sector I have noticed that a feeling of getting an easy opportunity with least education. Getting into armed forces is a tradition in my family too, however after being a single male after my father and with a great desire as well, I have hardly thought of going into this profession. I should call it profession as today it is profession.

I have seen my father who has given 32 years in Armed forces and reached to Officer Rank (Honorary) but it has taken all of his civil life and was aloof for around 5-10 years to search out for company. The mental innovativeness is NIL, scope of enhancement is NIL and of course Social and personal life is NIL.

I have undergone with much military camp and possess “C” Certificate in NCC Represented at National Level. But honestly I have not planned to go for Regular Armed Forces as it has a great mental stagnancy, the kind of Guidelines & attentions civil parents can give to their child can never be compared.

I have choose Social Work as profession and found the best field ever. The only thing I know is if you wanna save your life you need to kill. Thus these are only executive part of defense and that to for those rules formed pre-independence.

Sorry to say but as vinit saxena had said its very true, you might have seen during recent Mumbai attack, NSG and other defense officers were transported on Local Bus, Given 05 Lakh as Death compensation or less, but See Cricketers and other players. Its not about comparing the monetary aspects of profession, but when a person is having neither mental nor financial satisfaction he tends to react, revolt or suicide. That’s what happening in our forces, see the figures in Web.

My only concern is Social, economical and intellectual sustainability after services. I would serve forces but as a non regular person like TA or some other as I have to follow the tradition. I mean to say there is always a way even between two different paths.

And Please don’t write like Mr Jay that a defense person makes better tomorrow, no one can underestimate the contribution of a common man or a farmer who grows food for you. As Mr. Kartikey has given his database regarding the financial calculation I somehow agree and mostly disagree.
“Do you have it in you?” – A shortage of officers in our Defense Forces
Those who have it 70% didn’t get through. It is true to say a fool chooses the fools to form a good company. The selection procedure is prehistoric since 1906 / 1935 the same procedure for the evaluation of a candidature is being followed.

See there are many cases when a person deserves but the selectors are so egoistic and arrogant that they don’t choose them… I have many examples in my friend circle. Two of my friends have given 07 SSBs till 1996 and didn’t get recommended but now they are Assistant Commandant in BSF and CRPF.

There are various ways to serve the nation and every profession has equal contribution in nation development and May I ask you “If defense job wont pay you a penny would you join?”. Similarly I won’t underestimate the patriotism of those who will really continue.

My only Point is instead of discussing such a useless topics Please focus on what can be done to serve the nation in the best way being in any profession. And don’t underestimate the contribution of any profession over another.

K.Ravi.
Social Worker.

By: vinit saxena

vinit saxena — Tue, 09 Dec 2008 15:40:27 +0000

I was selected as an officer in the indian army
in my first attempt,i however opted out as i had always seen my father hard pressed for money and his retirement at the age of 51 as a LT COL,WHILE I WAS STILL IN SCHOOL LEFT ME SHOCKED AND SHATTERED AS A CHILD,although my father never showed any anger for the system and took great pride in his 32 years of service.
I strongly feel there is a great need for changes to be implemented as soon as possible if we want quality people tojoin the defence forces of the country.

By: Jay

Jay — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:20:32 +0000

is it sarcasm i am seeing in the previous comment. Come on civilians, it wake up call you cant be doing this to the defence perosonnel. Remember;the soldier gives his today for your better tomorrow. If you are able to sleep in your cozy and comfy home today is because of the ‘n’number of faceless soldiers that are guarding frontiers in a most hostile weather conditions and add to it the enemies. Tell me how many of our so called educated people know about the new recruit (soldier) gets? he is supposed to be guarding our borders in testing conditions to name a few Siachin glacier, easten territory-and he is doing it well by just not caring about the conditions, the food, facilities. His being there in those places is his love for the motherland. And in turn what he gets? truth is bitter. And how many of us are aware of this fact. And with such an awareness among the so called educated lot, who can battle for him? and how is that his conditions are going to be better? and how can these conditions be influential in drawing the talent to the defence forces.
Awareness among the civilians is the key to this issue. They can raise their voice and can justifiably get what a soldier deserves. Because the soldier cant really raise his voice against the establishment. Hi is bound to ‘just follow the orders’, and he is doing it fine. So this all boils down to civilian youths to battle for the betterment of soldiers lives by actively involving in the process.

By: kartik

kartik — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:57:12 +0000

dear sn ram

that is why you do not get even what they get

By: lt col s n ram

lt col s n ram — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:05:12 +0000

dear friends,
there funny comments from all over india specialyy civilians brother who have not seen the hard life of a soldier. mil officers cannot be equated with any civ offr because they are required to deal with trained soldiers who knows that they have to live together and die if possible together. where this concept will be found in any branch of govt administraion/corporate world. so no comparision should be made frivously . thanks and regards

By: kartik

kartik — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:43:58 +0000

DO YOU HAVE IT IN YOU?
1. Would you like to join an organisation which you join at the age of 21-24 yrs and it tells you at your age of 38/41 years that now you are now unwanted in this org.(IT MEANS NO PROMOTION FOR 75-80 PERCENT of officers AFTER THIS )
Not only this the org also tells you at your age of 44/45 that now you will not get any increase in your pay( PAY SCALE FOR Lt Col is 15100-400-18300 and it starts at the service of 13 years and reaches to its max at 21 years of service)
then when you are 54 years of age it just throws you out.
and this treatment is given to atleast 75 percent of you who join together.

At the age of 45 why should you be forced to start looking for a new career. at the age of 22 only why do’nt you join an org which looks you after till your age of 60 years
2. AND ON THE TOP OF ALL THIS YOU ARE NEVER TOLD ABOUT THE FACTS ABOVE before joining the org . BECAUSE ORG knows the repercussions